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Advice to programmers: Get a government job

Posted by The Editor on Sun, Dec 14, 2008 @ 04:05 PM
 

In a recent John Derbyshire article, he publishes the following reader email.  I wanted to reprint just the first part of the email, without the surrounding politics, so that I could solicit intelligent comments from programmers.  So here it is:

-----------------------------------------------------------

Derb — Allow me to comment. I am one of those government employees you talk about. I was not always a government employee. For 25 years, I made a handsome living as a computer programmer until the DOTCOMBOMB and outsourcing took their savage toll. My wife was always a government employee and urged me to become likewise. I resisted her blandishments. I was making big money and putting it away. I was a sucker. She is now retired and I am still working!

After losing my job and pension six years ago, I became a government employee. My reaction was how could I have been so blind for so long?! The private sector has become a vast lie, a minefield where one must carefully consider every step and purse one's lips. You can be banished with a snap of the fingers. I used to work my a** off, 80 hours a week. I now work a precise 40. I used to worry about layoffs and downsizing. No more. I used to worry about my pension. No more. Indeed, I can plan with computer precision the day of my exit from the work force. I shall be 63, my birthday, and retire with Social Security and a very secure pension along with a medical care supplement. Let us be blunt, there shall be two classes of people going forward. Those who can retire and those who can't.

What a fool I was. It was all a vast waste of time. Time that could have been better spent building up pension credits, leading to an even more munificent lifestyle!!!! Oh, it was fun while it lasted but, seriously, I should have been a mailman out of high school!! Like yourself, I have advised my grandchildren accordingly.

Let me be clear, this is a catastrophic development for our country. When the private sector can no longer compete with the public sector, you know that society is on its way out.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Any programmers/government workers out there who'd like to comment? Has the emailer overblown things, or is it really finanically prudent for an egineer to get a government job?

COMMENTS

"I used to work my a** off, 80 hours a week. I now work a precise 40." 
 
Sounds like he went from a bad private job to a good government one. Most private-sector jobs don't make you work 80 hours a week. 
 
"I used to worry about layoffs and downsizing. No more." 
 
And that's the catch. When it's really hard to fire somebody, your job is safe, but so is the idiot's down the hall. I'll gladly accept the (tiny) risk of being fired if it means I can work with the best programmers around. I've worked at "hard to fire people" jobs before, and they're real soul-suckers.

posted @ Sunday, December 14, 2008 5:34 PM by Bill


Get a government job ... and bore yourself to death

posted @ Sunday, December 14, 2008 5:46 PM by John_Idol


If my goal is to have a sure fire plan to retire comfortably at 60, then go with the government...if that not your goal, then this advice doesn't really apply.

posted @ Sunday, December 14, 2008 6:08 PM by Chris


:) 60.. Pray to live another 5-10 years.

posted @ Sunday, December 14, 2008 6:59 PM by Andrew Vorobyov


I'm often wondering, why americans work in this kind of business-friendly way. In germany (or I think in most country's of europe) I can't imagine to start a job in a firma, which doesn't guarantee a pension, healthcare, holidays for extra spended hours, etc. 
Union's are specially organized to deal with the companys for this social advantages. Unions are organized through the employees for the employees. The german law says that every company with more than 5 employees must allow at least one democratically elected person as a speaker for this employees (with special rights and preventions against get firing). In larger companys this often are unionists with heavily support of counselors. 
Why this isn't possible in America? It cost's luxus but provide more social stability.  
Did I see smth wrong here?

posted @ Sunday, December 14, 2008 7:03 PM by gaerfield


My father is a long time lawyer for (some state, don't want to give it away) and even his job security is guaranteed. Maybe Federal jobs are more secure but then again you are always hearing politicians talking about cutting back funding to federal programs. I guess my point is that working for a large auto company at one point seemed safe, work for bank in America until recently seemed safe, working for the government in the future... Still safe?

posted @ Sunday, December 14, 2008 7:21 PM by Dude


gaerfield: Empirically, it looks like a recipe for failure. Industries here which are heavily unionized (e.g., auto, education) tend to do much worse than those which aren't (e.g., physicians, programmers). 
 
I wonder why Europeans work in such a business-hostile environment. It's like you think companies are always huge and dangerous and static, instead of as they truly are: simply made up of people who wanted to start companies. Pensions? Unions? At *5* employees? The last 2 companies I've worked for (both founded by friends) could never have been started in such an entrepreneur-hostile country. 
 
Sure, it probably provides more "social stability" (as do the Amish). If you remember your history, America wasn't exactly founded on that principle. That's not why we're here. 
 
I can name only one German software company, and it isn't exactly known for great software. The market for jobs is at work globally, too: if we as programmers wanted your brand of business, we *could* go there (I even speak the language), but it seems programmers are flocking to SF and Boston, not Walldorf.

posted @ Sunday, December 14, 2008 8:22 PM by Noman


Hi Noman, thank you for your answer. Personally I doesn't think all companies are big & evil. The laws in germany provide a basic communication between the managing-layer of a company and there employees. So the companies MUST take care of their employees and just if they try to erode this fact it means problems. There also exists companies with more optional advantages for their employees like special pension-founds, health-care or profitsharing.  
But in times of crises, managers naturally try to save money where it's possible (that could mean pay cut or layoffs, but also mean some days of unpayed holidays which is more better for the employees than to get fired). And a "good will" or "Don't be evil" isn't a good basis to force companies on thinking of their employees, if there smth goes in the wrong direction. 
Unions as a neutral middleman should try to support both, managers and employees, for a fair attendance to employees as well as the companies success. This is for sure a way of company-hostile, but also way of less employee-hostile. 
I would like to give another example: 
Many european states (Spain, France, Great-Britain) have a minimum wage (personally I doesn't understand why not Germany). This is also company-hostile. But is it really wrong to force companys to pay their employees enough for survive, if they doesn't do this by free will? In my ethics understanding this is self-evident. Am I wrong? 
 
That you just know one german software-company isn't a really good fact as evidence that the american business-support way maybe is better. The history of internet and computer starts in the USA (through heavy research by the US-Army, plz correct if I'm wrong). So Americans Universitys takes the leadership in research of this field which also means many startups out of Universitys (like SUN). This is a temporary headstart which is not easy to catch. 
I'm also not able to say, if the german way means that companies not be able to grow (because many german companies had their big grow in the second world war by using Jews as a kind of slaves, i.e. Siemens). 
I'm believe, if companies forced to work with social responsibility this means also stability for the state itself as well as for the company in the LONG RUN perspective, but in cost's to fast growth. I can't give any practical evidence's for this, but I hope for the future this is a right way. In the other case the chinese politics is the bettest way (where I can't imagine, how a state can partly treat their own population this hard).

posted @ Monday, December 15, 2008 7:56 AM by gaerfield


Uh, I think you missed the point of being what you claim to be. Of course it's easy and secure to have a regulated life, but wth who wants such thing? if you're finished with your life, ok, nobody minds - but I wouldn't work for being secured when I'm old and almost dead, that just makes no sense - I work for the experience (which gives excitement) and everything that is involved in it. Programming should be sth you dont use for maximizing your paycheck, but for finding out about things and maximizing experience. And consider this - without private business, gov couldnt pay you a cent. You are very right in that gov jobs are pretty secure, but they are also pretty artificial. I couldnt ever imagine to become a gov employee, and therefore I dont find any excuse for it - it's just not the real world ;].

posted @ Monday, December 15, 2008 8:57 AM by frevd


We are so rich today that it would be no problem to provide stability and full Laissez-faire. If we could just keep low taxes and run a sound financial system, people could save three years worth of expenses for every one year of work. This would be the best of both worlds.

posted @ Friday, February 06, 2009 11:41 PM by Devin Finbarr


If you think your government job and pension is safe today, you may be in for a very unhappy surprise. Things that appear to be the most stable frequently can be the ones sitting on tons of dynamite (risk).

posted @ Wednesday, April 15, 2009 4:40 AM by ARF


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